Imagine mustering the courage to demand the salary you truly deserve—Dorothy Mashburn, the negotiation virtuoso, and I, Minessa Konecky, unravel the complexities behind this daunting task. This episode is a treasure trove of insights, empowering you to peel away the layers of societal conditioning and self-doubt that have long dictated our worth in the workplace. Together, we dissect the systemic ideologies and gender-specific hurdles that often handcuff our confidence, providing you with the strategies needed to assert your value and secure the compensation that reflects your true worth.
Swaying in the gravity of societal expectations can paralyze us from climbing the ladder to financial empowerment. Join us as we shed light on the psychological tactics of anchoring in salary discussions and the transformative power of having a strong 'Option B'. Dorothy Mashburn's wisdom is a beacon, guiding you through the nuances of workplace dynamics and teaching you how to flip the power balance in your favor. Our conversation is a masterclass in crafting leverage and the fine art of transforming negotiations into partnerships, instilling a bold confidence that radiates through every aspect of your professional and personal life.
This episode isn't just about asking for that raise; it's a playbook for approaching all of life's negotiations with clarity, confidence, and the joy of knowing you're stepping into your power.
CONNECT WITH ME MORE AT:
http://www.stopshoulding.me
https://www.instagram.com/minessa.konecky/
🎵 Thank you to Karacter for allowing me to use Telepathy (2005) in my intro.
This is one of my favorite albums of all time.
👉 Check it out: https://karacter.bandcamp.com/album/karacter
Imagine mustering the courage to demand the salary you truly deserve—Dorothy Mashburn, the negotiation virtuoso, and I, Minessa Konecky, unravel the complexities behind this daunting task. This episode is a treasure trove of insights, empowering you to peel away the layers of societal conditioning and self-doubt that have long dictated our worth in the workplace. Together, we dissect the systemic ideologies and gender-specific hurdles that often handcuff our confidence, providing you with the strategies needed to assert your value and secure the compensation that reflects your true worth.
Swaying in the gravity of societal expectations can paralyze us from climbing the ladder to financial empowerment. Join us as we shed light on the psychological tactics of anchoring in salary discussions and the transformative power of having a strong 'Option B'. Dorothy Mashburn's wisdom is a beacon, guiding you through the nuances of workplace dynamics and teaching you how to flip the power balance in your favor. Our conversation is a masterclass in crafting leverage and the fine art of transforming negotiations into partnerships, instilling a bold confidence that radiates through every aspect of your professional and personal life.
This episode isn't just about asking for that raise; it's a playbook for approaching all of life's negotiations with clarity, confidence, and the joy of knowing you're stepping into your power.
CONNECT WITH ME MORE AT:
http://www.stopshoulding.me
https://www.instagram.com/minessa.konecky/
🎵 Thank you to Karacter for allowing me to use Telepathy (2005) in my intro.
This is one of my favorite albums of all time.
👉 Check it out: https://karacter.bandcamp.com/album/karacter
Hey there, I'm Vanessa Konnicki, and this is Stop Shitting All Over Yourself a show to remind you that you do know what you're doing and you are enough exactly as you are. Each episode, I connect with an incredible human being who has walked the path that you're on. It's the path that leaves other people's expectations for who you're supposed to be and the decisions that you're supposed to make by the wayside and replaces those ideas with a blueprint for your life that you design. These are stories that will inspire you, and the tactics that they apply will help you to lay the bricks on the road to a happier and more joyful you, as always. Thank you so much for listening and, if you're on YouTube, drop a like or subscribe to get all the feel good content from Vanessa TV. But now let's listen in, as I have a conversation with Dorothy Mashburn, a salary negotiation expert and someone who is a consistent inspiration to me in terms of how she views and approaches money.
Speaker 1:One of the biggest challenges that so many of us face is asking for what we're worth Asking for the raise, making that argument to say this is what I want to make.
Speaker 1:The things that hold us back aren't just our own anxieties, but there are years of systemic ideologies piled on top of employees to keep them in a position where they ask for less, which ultimately has the biggest impact on the bottom line for the company. For a lot of corporations, their salary and fringe line takes up the most of their budget. So if they can keep your costs low, then it works out better for them. But how does that help us as employees in living our most authentic and joyful lives While the bottom line is getting bigger? Are we making enough money to at minimum compensate for the cost of living or at best provide for a healthy, joyful and fulfilling life? There is a lot to unpack in this conversation and I know that you're going to be as mesmerized as I am by her brilliant approach. So let's listen in and you'll be asking for a raise before you know it.
Speaker 2:Diving in yourself is not selfish. A lot of people they dream about big goals, they think about big goals, but then, when it comes to investing in yourself, they hesitate. This might be like I'm spending too much money.
Speaker 1:Let's dive in on that now, because I'd like to actually dive into that a little bit, starting with that in that, why do you think it is that people? Because I had that same philosophy for so many years, where it's like somebody would tell me to hire a coach and I would spend money on food, I'd spend money on rent, I'd spend money, I'd even spend money on clothes before I would spend money on a coach to train me to, and that was in retrospect. I can see how that hindered my growth. But why do you think I did that? Where do you think that? I mean not that I'm asking you my therapist, but generally speaking, where does that come from?
Speaker 2:Part of it, I believe, is social programming. We are always, especially as women as to women or girls, as we are growing up in a very patriarchal society, told to help others, share with others, groom or nurture others, but the self always takes a back seat. So when it comes to whether it's a physical trainer, hiring somebody, it's like those 200 bucks a month or 300 bucks a month, whatever the number is, or 500 becomes like oh, I'm going to spend on myself and my family may not get X, y and Z, or my kids don't get X, Y and Z. And it becomes this narrative inside our heads where we're saying it's selfish to spend that much money on myself. And sometimes it's not as conscious, it's like quick, you know like you think about the money you spend on me, or on eating out every Friday, and eating out on every Friday wins, because spending the money on myself means that I'm depriving my family of that fund.
Speaker 2:So that's, I would say that's a big one. And then, second, I think there is a lot of hesitation on not having the confidence that you will put in the work, because coaching is not a magic pill. It's something like you have to put in the work. You know somebody can guide you and give you the takeaway, the noise, so you can really focus. But then it's also work. You have to put in the work and not a lot of people feel that they can or have the time to do that.
Speaker 1:You know, I think there's also the you know you were talking earlier about. You know the narrative that we have in our heads, like, if you like, let's say, you tell me, oh, I just bought myself a massage right, and now I'm thinking, God, you were a terrible mother, didn't you tell me that your daughter needed cleats right? Or something like that right.
Speaker 1:So there's like that, even if the story isn't real right Because the problem is and here's what I'm curious about right Because, like, there's the side of the story that isn't real right Because I'm not actually saying that to you and I never would even think that, but in your mind you may write that story, that somebody is going to think that.
Speaker 1:But on the other hand, there is those of us like so you know, I grew up in Pakistan and my responsibility was to make sure that, as I grew up, I did these things, and there were people who would actually say that you were not being a good sister, wife, mother, whatever, because you weren't doing these things. And there's many places in the world and here's the thing it's a vert in some places and it's covert in others, but you will find it everywhere where people will literally tell you I can't, I cannot believe you spent money on that. So I'm curious to know do you work with clients, like when you, or do you work with people who actually have the overt stuff, where people are really telling them that they're bad? And how does that even navigate that space?
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me think about that. So a lot of it I would say 80 percent is covert because you know a lot of people know that it's in the surface level. You know that you know wearing the oxygen mask first before putting it on your child in the plane in case of emergency they've heard that right, you take care of you first and then take care of your child or whoever else is depending on you. So on the very surface level we know that it's not selfish. But then under the layers, a lot of it is covert, unconscious training. I cannot honestly think about anybody who you know.
Speaker 2:Where it does become covert I mean overt is at workplaces where if you are asserting, you know being say I want to be part of that project, that's going to give me a big visibility, you may be seen as extra aggressive or being told that you know you're putting yourself first before your team, so you get shy. You know you get shy from saying next time raising your hand and you overgeneralize. And it's a bit of I guess you know, thought distortion where you're overgeneralizing. Last time I did raise my hand. You know I got a small scolding saying hey, you're putting yourself and so every single time afterwards you're going to say I'm not going to speak up for myself. Or I'm not going to say I need $10,000 to go develop myself.
Speaker 1:You know, let's actually jump in on that, because I think that's actually a really key thing, because we started off by talking that investing in yourself is important, right and like, and I think that you touched base on the fact that you have to believe that you're worthy of that investment, that it's not selfish, and actually the truth is is it is selfish, but that's okay.
Speaker 1:Like, selfish sounds like a judgy term, but it's like you know, it's not it's self, it's actually self less, in that you're you're, you're, you're rebuilding, you're building yourself more for others. And the reason why I'm going to bring this up in the context of the workplace is I used to run my own business many moons ago and a lot of my clients would trade time for money. So they'd you know, let's say, you charge $50 an hour for them. If they needed to make more money, it was not raise my prices, it was work more hours. People that I've worked with in corporate America they are same thing. Whereas you're hourly, it's like work more hours, right, you never, really most people don't ask for a raise, and so you know sorry my throat all of a sudden.
Speaker 1:So when I think of those of us at work right, who are almost really like giving ourselves a voice and saying, hey, I want to make X dollars or I want Y, right, oh, did I lose you? I lost you, vanessa. Oh, yeah, no, I lost you too. I was like wait, where did you go? Are you there? Now I'm here, but I can't see you. You can't see me, I can't see you. Hold on, let me turn on your camera, let me just see. Ask to start video and then I'm going to stop video and then start video there we go All right.
Speaker 2:Okay, perfect, all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so okay. So what I was really actually going we were talking about raising your hand at work and like and getting scolded for that. Coming back to that, you know, and being conditioned, because I think the reason why I was so excited to have you on today is that this is such a complicated topic. This idea of negotiating salary, asking for what you're worth and really not shying away from asking for the funds that you deserve to be able to live your life and I think that so many of us like that is at the baseline, right. So if you're not getting paid an adequate amount, then that literally cascades into every other part of your life.
Speaker 1:Then I go into a meeting with my boss where I know this right. So I know that I need an extra 50,000, or I know I need to shoot 5,000 or whatever it is that I know that I need, like I know this, that this is the dollar amount that I need for me to be able to live my best life and have everything right. And I'm sitting in that room. I will, and I have in the past. You know I've obviously gone through a lot of coaching to work my way through this, but the default position is still there that when the conversation begins, I don't even feel worthy of investing my voice to myself.
Speaker 1:So when they say oh well, what do you want? I will cut my rate down 50% before I've even opened my mouth, right and like. But walking in there, I had the number, I'm ready. I got the thing, and you sit down and there's like oh no, I'll take whatever you give me, thank you. So can you tell me a little bit about like? Like, because now you're almost shooting yourself in the foot because that's the oxygen mask, right, that's the mask that's going to keep you alive and going, so that your whole family can be happy, and now you can have cleats and also go get a massage. What? What happens to us in that moment and what can we do in that moment to navigate that situation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really small question.
Speaker 1:I just asked very small.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how many hours you have. You know, I think the the couple of things is we have learned fear to adjust ourselves, to make ourselves smaller because of fear. So a lot of it. I think of fear as gravity right. So a lot of society is based on, you know, just like gravity keeps the planets in place, society is built so that everybody knows their place and everybody's acting in a way that helps the larger society. So, you know, fear is that power or energy that keeps us all in our spots.
Speaker 2:And so when an individual tries to, you know, like especially a female or who's been raised female with female conditioning, you know they are thinking if I raise my voice, if I say, if I make myself bigger, I fear that I'm going to get rejected, because that's what we've been trained to do, you know. So you're literally trying to take off away from gravity. You know, get into outer space, and so you're fighting years and years of societal conditioning and programming, because that's what society was built to do, you know. And so that's why when, I believe, when you're raising your voice, you're literally trying to, you know, get rid of gravity, go out into outer space, and that's a lot of, you know, counterweights that you're trying to fight against. And that's what's happening, and you're making yourself smaller, so you're not seen as a threat.
Speaker 1:That's exactly how it feels. That is like literally how it feels, cause you feel like you're being pulled in the direction of what you know is right, versus what you're supposed to do. And then, but then there's that next level, right. So you know, if I so let's say, I do find my voice in that moment and I say this is what I want, right. And so there was actually my wife, years ago, was negotiating for her salary and the number that, like she was, she's a big fan of anchoring right. So she goes in to the and I had no idea.
Speaker 1:I watched this happen and I was like I don't understand what just happened, like I really don't understand what just happened. She's on a call with her boss and her boss is like you know, what do you want for? You know salary. And so she gives the number and her boss starts laughing at her, like literally just laughing, like this is the most ridiculous request ever. And my wife was like completely unfazed, like totally unfazed, and I'm sitting there going like oh my God, like I'm panicking, like what's happening, and she gets off the call.
Speaker 1:And I said, and I asked her, I was like, oh my God, that didn't go well, she goes. Oh, it went perfect. And I was like what? And she's like listen, first things first. She's like I said the higher number. Now, whatever number, low ball number they were going to give me, they have now been anchored at a higher number. So I'm going to get a higher number no matter what. Yes, yes Two. I'm not going to get that number, but I'm going to get a higher number no matter what. And so her dismissal of that rejection was like I didn't even know, that was a thing I didn't know. You could just reject that. Like I'm curious to know how. Like, first of all, if my wife was your client, what would you say?
Speaker 2:And second, I would give her a trophy you don't need any services.
Speaker 1:You're good, you're good, I know. Right, she taught like it's amazing. But you know, and so I'm curious, though, how do you deal with that on the other side? Like so now I'm your, I'm your client and I'm telling you these are my problems. And you're like yeah, I'm going to help you, you give me the language and the scripts, but my boss is not going to go with the script that I. You know they're going to have their own shit to say about it. And how do you deal with that resistance? Like, what are your thoughts on where that resistance comes from and how to, how to, how to navigate that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean so when, when you're negotiating, it's more than just that one and done conversation, right?
Speaker 2:So, first of all, anchoring absolutely works, you know. So think about, like, if you're going to target and you see a pair of shoes for like $35 and you're like I don't know if I want to spend $35. I'm going to go on the sale rack and buy something for $20. So 35 in that instance is a big number for you. But when you go to, say, a new balance or Nike store you know this maybe the shoes are 150 and they're discounted at $100. And you're like, wow, that's a great deal, I'm going to buy this pair of shoes at $100, right? So that's what's happening in our brain. When you're anchoring at a bigger number, anything, you know, you don't go from $150 to say $20. You're happy with the $100. So that's what anchoring is all about and that's what, psychologically, your wife did with her boss. So kudos to her.
Speaker 2:But negotiation, to my earlier point, is more than just that one conversation.
Speaker 2:So if you truly believe that you're worth $150, you're going to create what we call leverage in your negotiation by adding another factor, which could be a job in a different department or a job in a different industry or even an entrepreneurial option.
Speaker 2:So I have one client who went in saying that you know, hey, you know, I've been with this company for eight plus years and I've only seen incremental 3% growth and I've been antsy. I want to do more. I can give more, but I want to also see a pay increase. And what I've started doing on the weekends and I really enjoy, is entrepreneurial things. Like you know, she makes beaded necklaces and they were taking off in Etsy and it's like I'm thinking about getting a small business loan and doing this full time because this job and the money is just not worth it. And that immediately got a reaction from her current company because they know that they valued her. And so this what we call a BATNA best alternative to a negotiated agreement basically means she has an option B and when she has an option B, then she starts getting the attention that she needed and they, you know, gave her a promotion, went to a senior analyst and gave her a $50,000 raise.
Speaker 1:You know that's freaking amazing so that's what you know.
Speaker 2:So negotiating is more than a conversation, and you have a whole strategy behind it, and that's how you leverage to get to the next rung.
Speaker 1:You know there's a couple of things you said there. The first is is fucking amazing. That's just to start with that. That's amazing, but I think you know. The second thing is is, you know, she let's talk about that dynamic going into the office where she comes in and says you know, I've been making these beaded necklaces and they're doing really well, and so she's having a conversation with her boss. Like, initially, the conversation is a power dynamic, where the boss is I have the money, I have the job, I have the power, I have everything and you are a supplicant coming to me requesting these things. And I think that's actually one of the bigger challenges that I think I and I don't know what to do about it. But energetically, that's what I feel happens in these conversations is that there is a presumption that you're lucky that you have a job here and we've all been conditioned in that way that, like and I hear people say it all the time I should just be lucky to have a job.
Speaker 1:It's like no, and so the way that I've started to think about it and I don't you'll have to like, help me with this, because it's new thoughts for me is more like I am an expert in. I'm a research, administrative expert and this one of the things I'm an expert at and I rent my time to the company that is, and you're not buying my, you don't get to control me, but I feel like that I'm lucky to have a job idea, coupled with almost like this philosophy that your job is your identity. Do you feel like like, do you feel like a lot of people go in without having, like you said, that option be, and not having that option be almost makes it feel like this is my only option, like almost this is like all or nothing, and I will literally not be able to feed my family if I don't have this, and like that now creates a, like you said that, fearful conversation. I'm walking in just hoping I don't lose my job. Yeah, your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:Yep, absolutely, and that's why it's a whole strategy, right? So, yeah, if you go in and you hit the nail on the head when you said power dynamic, right. So you, what you're doing with a option be is creating your, shifting the power, power dynamic to you, because now they need you more than you need them, and that's why the option be has to be a realistic option that you can execute if things go south. So first, two things that I will say. You know, when you ask for more money, always remember that you will not lose your job. You know, of course, if you, if you come in all entitled and act unprofessional, you will. But if you simply ask for a raise or ask to be considered for a promotion, there's, there's no reason any reasonable person is going to say you're terminated. So take that fear out of your mind, right? So that's one thing. And then, second is Barbara Stanny has a great book called. She works a lot of about under our nurse and what she talks about is people.
Speaker 2:We people who are fearful tend to also martyr ourselves saying that, oh, you know, I, like you know, I'm not in it for the money, or, you know, I'm just happy to have a job because it fulfills me and so why would I go anywhere elsewhere? So these are all self sabotaging type. You know it's narratives in our brain, so we've got to be very cognizant about that. And if, if we catch ourselves, then we've got to like write things down. So again, it's a whole strategy.
Speaker 2:You have to understand yourself. And then also, before you do anything else, you've got to like self correct all of the conditioning, all of the fear before you even execute an option, be before you even go, have that conversation. And but if you do have that conversation, it's like you know in Star Wars, right when Luke goes over and fights with Darth Vader before he's ready and you know he gets his hand chopped off. There's like, yeah, it can happen for you, but it's going to be painful and it's going to like get make you gunshot for the next one because it's going to be. You may get like an incremental you know 5%, 10% but you also get a lot of scars because you went in unprepared. But if you go in prepared, then you are set for life, like if you have a whole strategy that makes sense, that gets the power back in your court versus giving them the power, then you have truly set yourself up for success.
Speaker 1:You know.
Speaker 1:I so agree on the on all of it, like especially the preparation part, because I think, like too often, we go into these situations blind and we make assumptions about what we think is happening and we'll often assume to our detriment, right going back to the point where we might have to murder ourselves.
Speaker 1:I laughed when you said that because I saw myself in that right, like it's oh no, no, I just did like and I've got a different relationship with money now, but like it took a long time, lots of coaching, lots of therapy, and it's going to sound, I guess, maybe sound weird, but it's, I guess it's kind of the way it is. Right is that a lot of this stuff is like therapy stuff, right, is like conditioning, stuff is like belief and self worth. Because if I go into a meeting or an interview where I'm feeling confident, right, and I'm confident about my skills, I'm confident about my value, I'm confident about my option B, I'm just, I'm confident in general and I'm confident that we're partners like I'm, that I'm talking to someone who's a partner, then we're going to have a very different type of conversation.
Speaker 1:Then, if I go in with you, are my boss who controls all the power, like just the tone of voice that I use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, different, you know yep, yeah, and that's and that's tough and I so I think that one of the things that really turned me on a lot about how I found you I can't remember, so just that everybody knows I found you, so I basically got on. I saw your on LinkedIn and your salary negotiation the fact that you work specifically and exclusively in knowing your worth, negotiation these key critical areas I like the greatest person on the whole planet, because so many of the people that I work with you know all of my audience and listeners have. They have had some sort of chronic illness or they're caregivers for people who have chronic illness. These are people who are really dexterous, intelligent, creative, but because of the nature of our, our life framework, we struggle with having a voice for ourselves, and so we'll take the pennies and the and it's what's funny is like for all the people around, including myself. I see that we're worth diamonds, but that we're willing to settle for just oh, my God, is that dust. Thank you so much for the little bit of dust that you just gave me, and I think my world really started to change when I had the scripts and the confidence and then everything else came after that because, like, at some point I realized that what I had been doing wasn't working.
Speaker 1:So I've been trying to do things a different way for a really long time and I'm like it's not working. And so I what I did was I took what you said just now and I just believed it and and my soul was like you're full of shit. And I'm like, no, I believe this Right. But like it, I had to pretend, and I remember the reason why I bring up the voice is because I remember going into a call where I had to play with my voice beforehand so that it didn't sound tight and, like you know, like almost victimized, versus like hey, we're here talking, we're friends, we've collectively got something that we're sharing together.
Speaker 1:I noticed on your website that that's something that you help with in that, and so I wanted to touch on that because I didn't believe it First. I had the script Right, so I was like I don't really believe it, but I'm going to pretend that I'm going to script, I'm going to use a script. So can you share a little bit about how you feel like having these like? How do these scripts help people when they're like, because like somebody who right now is struggling with asking for raises and going to tomorrow, suddenly be like I'm ready to ask for a raise?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how do you use scripts or how do you, how do you feel like those help your clients and people in getting where they're worth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, one of the things that I want to elaborate on. What you actually touched on is as a as an expert in your field, as a subject matter expert, you have all of the power, right. But you're going in thinking about the old fashion sort of employer employee relationship. You know you have to love yourself as, as you mentioned, as a free agent. You know you have services you're going to offer them at a certain cost and they need your services and they're going to pay you for it, so, so that's one thing to really start thinking about. You know, like, if you're a world class athlete, right, you're not going to go in saying, oh yeah, you know, I'm just happy working 40 hours. You know you're going to talk about millions, right, and they're going to pay you because you're going to earn them something. So you have to reframe in your mind that whole dynamic that we've been taught or conditioned to think about.
Speaker 2:Now to your question about you know, how you know, how do you overnight change? So our brains, you know and there's neuroscience behind it you know, what we say to ourselves has a huge amount of impact on what we believe. So our brain doesn't necessarily can tell whether you know, if you tell your brain you know you you don't deserve it, you know your your crap and you, etc. Etc. Your brain's going to believe that. But if you tell your brain that you know you're awesome, your influential, your charismatic, you can, you can do anything, your brain's going to believe that. So it's really important that self talk to ourselves.
Speaker 2:And again, the book that I would recommend for your listeners is called chatter and, and the and the research scientist who's written that book goes into a lot of details about self talk and how that conditions and primes are mine to have or not have confidence. And so self talk is really important and there are different tricks and that you can use. One could be one easy one could be every day in your journal. Write down I'm influential and confident, and in 30 days you'll feel more influential and confident, you know. So these are ways to trick your brain to start being what you want that your brain to be. You know. And if you want to want it to be weak and, you know, not confident, you can continue what you've been telling yourself. It'll believe it. But if you wanted to change, then make, make. Make one small step and it's going to make all the difference.
Speaker 1:Amen. Thank you for that recommendation, because that is like it's a self talk. I agree. So much it. It changed every. It changes everything. I just had this conversation with my sister and you know she's been going through her own journey and we were at the phase where the space where I said, okay, I'm going to challenge you, the same challenge my therapist gave me like I've. You know it's a classic challenge, everybody's got to do it which is I challenge you to flip the script and for one week, anytime you say I suck, say I'm amazing, anytime you just like flip it for one week and just see what happens.
Speaker 1:and if the world doesn't explode, then why not just keep going? Yeah, yeah, and it makes a difference, like it really does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you know, I mean all of our, all of our cliches, right like, flip the script. They mean something because it's work, right, it's work for hundreds of years. But maybe we need to hear it in a different way. Maybe some of our listeners want to think about, you know, is there actually neuroscience? And let me tell you, there is actually science behind this where, you know, the chatter in our brain actually can be extremely powerful if we let it, by just unleashing the power that we have, by saying the good things, saying the confident things to ourselves, and we can become truly unstoppable if we, if we let it.
Speaker 1:My grandmother used to always say all these things right and so many things, and I would say, wow, this is just old-fashioned village wisdom and I remember poo-pooing on it constantly and I now my grandfather as well, and now, with all the neuroscience stuff that you're talking about, I'm reading this stuff and I'm like they were right all along and sometimes I say to myself, why didn't anybody think to tell me these things?
Speaker 2:And it's like no, you know what they did try to tell me I just wasn't and you were just not ready to take it. Right, I wasn't ready to take it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm curious were you ever in a like when you did you spring fully forth from the womb with this confidence, or did you grow into this confidence?
Speaker 2:I had to grow into it. There was a lot of falling a lot of. So I'm an immigrant, so I'm from a small province in the Himalayas and when I first came to the United States about 20 years ago, I was extremely nervous. There was no social support. I didn't have any sponsors and mentors, things.
Speaker 2:I looked around and my peers were light years ahead of me as far as ability to network, ability to do small talk, ability to get sponsors to take them to their next level, and I was just this scared, fearful person that was just trying to survive in a completely different environment with nobody here, and it took a lot of time and a lot of work on self-work to say I choose to not be that person, I choose to be somebody different. And again, it didn't happen overnight. There is no magic pill. You have to put in the work, and I have and I continue to do so. There are times when I'm in a boardroom with long-term executives with a lot of experience, when I have to go toe-to-toe with them and I have to go into the bathroom and do my affirmations and park my insecurities and then I go in and give it all I have. So it's a work in progress.
Speaker 1:You do that too.
Speaker 2:It's a work in progress.
Speaker 1:I do. Do you do it too? Yeah, I do. I go. I have a hole. I go into a room and it's like because before I go into a room of people I have to pull on my confidence suit.
Speaker 2:It's like all right we got this.
Speaker 1:It's whatever I need to do and it's different. Sometimes it's music, sometimes it's washing my face, but whatever it is, it's reminding. But I appreciate that you said that because I think that so many people looking at you, you're so smart, confident and you're saying all this stuff about negotiation and salary and it's like I think it's really easy for anyone to feel like that must just be how you are. That's not for me, and I think it's so important to recognize that you got here because you climbed the mountain, you clawed your way here, you got the bumps and the scrapes and the bruises and I don't know if you got your hand chopped off, but you maybe got a cool bionic hand if that happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but like it was then.
Speaker 1:Now you find yourself here, and so what I love is that you devote your life to this exclusively. So I'm actually I'd love to for my listeners, because this is my personal belief. Everybody, you know this ask for what you're worth, ask for more than what you're worth, because the company can often afford to pay you more than what you're worth and you are the gift, you are the value Like. You don't have to prove yourself right. So I believe this so strongly. But I also believe that we are conditioned to believe the exact opposite.
Speaker 1:So Toy Smith has a small training, a short training called Business Beyond Profit, where she talks about this was actually it was the video series that changed, it transformed my entire perspective on business, life, money, everything, and I just completely switched how I was living my life. But she breaks down the psychology on the corporate side and on the industry side. So you can actually see now like the systems, like when you talk about patriarchy and those and the systems. She actually breaks down the system so you can actually see how oh, this is how it's working to oppress me specifically. Right, this is.
Speaker 1:I can see how this is happening, and it was through that that I which is why I started doing the podcast the way I did, so that I could just basically get people like you into the faces of everyone who needs it, so that they can now play the game on the playing field right Cause, like we don't know the rules, we're going in into a game that we don't know all the rules to. We know what we want, but there's a whole hidden book back there. So I'd love to know for everyone listening if, like somebody let's say, this is from someone running a business who doesn't charge enough this is someone who wants to ask for a raise or a promotion or so on. Could you tell my listeners a little bit about how you help people, how you work with them, what you do and how they can find you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, thank you. So my website is DorothyMashburncom and I focus on, like you said, the whole strategy on how to understand your worth and then ask for it right. And in that work you learn how to build leverage for yourself, which is your shifting power dynamic to yourself. You get scripts on how to use the right trigger words. So a lot of conditioning happens male, female roles, and females are supposed to act this way. If you raise your voice, you're seen as aggressive, you're seen as hysterical, all of that but if you have universal principles of influence and persuasion.
Speaker 2:So these are things that, for example, social proof right Doesn't matter how you were conditioned, what background you have, what gender you are. Any of that doesn't matter because it touches the emotion and conditioning of humans, as we are programmed to be. So it does not matter all of the social. You can bypass all of that to get to the core of humans and you learn how to use those skills to really make yourself seen, known and valued, and these are things that I want people to have, because there is no reason to live in fear. There is plenty of abundant resources. So we need to stop thinking about there's only so much and we have to cower and hide ourselves and not be at our full potential to go lead a happy life, a fulfilled life.
Speaker 2:So if you are somebody who wants to give yourself that gift, so learn that, and you don't have to do it with me like, yeah, mine is a business. Get investing yourself right. It's not shameful. It is actually self-care for you to be able to do that. So please, please, think about how you are today and where you wanna be, and there is help out there. So if you wanna find me, I'm also on LinkedIn. I also have a podcast salary negotiations made simple, and we talk about more than just salary there. We're also talking about mindset, confidence, we're talking about influence and persuasion and all of the things that you need to be a happy, fulfilled human. So find me. I'm happy to help. This is my passion.
Speaker 1:And it's so evident I actually was. So you had the teacher on the podcast a few days ago, sarah Collinson. What I love a lot about the podcast is that, like I think that when we talk about negotiation, salary raises, things like that, they'll sound like they're very specific, like I'm gonna need to do it at a specific time, like it's not something that you do every day. But I think that one of the great things about your podcast is that you talk about and you bring us on that they address the underlying, foundational issues that give you the strength to do it when the time comes. It's sort of like if you need to like lift a thousand pounds, then it really helps if you've been lifting weights for the last year or two to be able to get your strength up instead of just suddenly picking up the thousand pounds. This is you preparing for when that time comes, you're like I'm already ready, I have this, and that's what I really like is because I think it's so hard when we're in the moment to be like, oh my God, I got a prep, but if you're doing, it just like tiny habits over the course of the year. So I love, love podcasts.
Speaker 1:Every time I get your emails and subscribe to her email list. The emails are really like. By the way also, I'm just totally gushing all over you. I love how clear the email, like the email. When I get the email, I know exactly what the podcast is. I'm actually gonna change my podcasting emails to mimic how you do yours because they're so clear. So guys, follow Dorothy, download her freebies they're great and get on her mailing list because she is going to help you make more money. Because here's the thing when you start, stop trading time for money. Now you can make more money in less time, which gives you more opportunity to live your life of joy, which means you don't have to say, oh, I gotta work till 10. You can be like, oh, I'm gonna clock out at noon because I will have made exactly what I need to buy then and that's so much confidence. That's awesome. Thank you, dorothy. I'm so grateful for what you do. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. This has been great. You are a psychologist. I tell you things.