Diamonds in the Rough: Ashley Robyn's Path to Professional Empowerment

Have you ever felt the sting of being undervalued? Ashley Robyn, the acclaimed author of "Maybe We're All Diamonds," joins us to share her courageous tale of self-advocacy in the face of  injustice. We wade through the murky waters of workplace boundaries and the art of claiming your worth. Ashley's personal triumph over a slashed salary and increased workload, set against the backdrop of her powerful book on toxic relationships, is nothing short of inspiring. Her experiences shine a beacon on the subtle, yet damaging discrepancies between company slogans and their actual treatment of employees.

Navigating the treacherous terrain of toxic workplace cultures can be a solitary endeavor, but with the right insights, one can emerge stronger and more aware. Ashley and I dissect the warning signs of such environments, from the dreaded 'golden handcuffs' to the gaslighting that corrodes professional growth. She also offers a sneak peek into her upcoming book, a guide designed to illuminate the early indicators of a harmful company atmosphere. Moreover, we celebrate the cathartic journey of storytelling, both personal and communal, and how it can foster deep connections and healing.

Topping off this heart-to-heart, we dig into the significance of honoring personal victories and the empowerment found in self-validation. Listeners are invited to relish the transformative impacts of such milestones, as I reflect on the liberating shift from a turbulent marriage to the fulfilling world of freelance writing. We wrap up with a heartfelt discussion on the promise of collaboration and the enduring value of friendships carved from shared struggles. This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for those seeking to fortify their professional lives and personal narratives with authenticity and conviction.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

You, you, you. Hello, everybody, welcome to the podcast. Stop shutting all over yourself, and I'm gonna start the podcast by not shutting all over myself. I have my friend here, ashley Robin, who wrote a fabulous, fabulous book called maybe world diamonds, and I invited her on this podcast and we dove right in talking like right away, and I was like, oh wait, let me hit record because you know we're gonna have some good shit. So I hit record. We talked for 20 minutes and then I looked out and I see the button says record and I'm like you know what that's weird Shouldn't be having like a number on it telling me how long we've been recording. And we literally hit some great shit which we'll hit again. But but you know, I like actually I like the way you're looking at this, the universe. That was just meant for us.

Speaker 2: 2:14

Yeah, well, it's still mercury retrograde, like it is very very Well, okay, so All right.

Speaker 1: 2:24

So now we know I'm not entirely sure what we already said, but what I'm gonna say here is this is that I found Ashley because there she was on In there was an Instagram video. I'd literally never heard of her before in my life. She just shows up randomly as a video. She's recording a phone call, which that I thought it was a really important phone call to record because it was you having a conversation with your boss and that you know she'll share the story afterwards.

Speaker 1: 2:50

But what I thought was important about it is it articulated a really a kind way of of setting boundaries, of sharing what you deserve, of Owning you're awesome without, like, being a jerk about it, right, like I mean you, by the way, you were being awesome, you were being great, you were awesome. But it also demonstrated, I think, the truth behind a lot of corporate language about, hey, we're all a family, hey, and I found it to be a really just telling video. So I Would love, love, love for you to introduce yourself and sort of tell a little bit about like, tell us a little bit about that video and how we met, like I think that's like really a cool thing. Let's.

Speaker 2: 3:35

I think this is a way more beautiful place. Yeah, you found this video and I I will say this first and foremost I I Cannot say enough. If you feel the need to record conversation with the bosses or partner or Any kind of relationship because you're being gaslit and you need to go back to it later, it's just like remember and think that you're not crazy and know that it actually happened. That's like such a red flag that you're in a toxic relationship. So that's the first thing I I was.

Speaker 2: 4:21

I Was working for a company that I loved, I Adored the work that I was doing and I really liked the team that I was working for Until I didn't like there were certain things that started to happen that was just too much to ignore and I wrote a book about leaving toxic relationships personally, that was coming out in a few weeks and I was seeing that my, my personal life and this book that I just wrote about finding my voice and leaving a toxic relationship.

Speaker 2: 5:00

I wasn't able to live out that lifestyle in my career because I was working in a really unhealthy culture at work and you I guess you could call it a conviction I knew that. I had a month or two maybe, until my book was being released, and I just thought I can't think. The conscience put out a book where I'm telling people that I found my voice and I have freedom to be who I truly am, and that I'm not allowing toxic relationships when I'm working in this environment and feeling the way that I'm feeling about this job and just feeling such despair about it. They reduce our salaries across the board by 20% and I would continue to stay there for an additional six months doing more work With the reduced salary, with the reduced salary, doing more work than I initially was.

Speaker 2: 6:08

Because people were leaving as our team shrunk, I had to take on more duties. In January I received permission, along with the 24% less pay I said you know I'm a single mom and I don't have family, that I can also pay my car payment, for example.

Speaker 2: 6:31

If I don't have it, it's on me and I have to figure that out and I'm not willing to put myself in a position to be struggling financially. I did that when I was married. That's one of the reasons I got divorced, one of the many reasons I got divorced. So I didn't want to put myself in that situation and I thought I love what I do here. I believe in the work that I'm doing and I love the client that we're working with. I want to continue on.

Speaker 2: 7:01

So can I supplement with some freelance on the side? Well, by June, well by May, I was feeling like I need to speak up because it keeps asking me to do more work and I'm not hearing anything about getting my salary back anytime soon. And at this point I've picked up enough freelance work that I'm actually making more freelancing than I am working for this full-time job. So it gave me a little bit of confidence to be able to say I'm hearing and I'm feeling convicted about putting out a book that I'm not living true to in my professional life. It's time for me to speak up for myself and to ask for what I'm worth. So I came to them two weeks before the release, after many weeks of pushback on multiple levels on my side, just said you're proposing that I do more work and you're making big promises to new clients that I don't feel like we can keep. I don't have the bandwidth to keep those promises. We're a team of two. Now how are we going to make that happen on the department that I was in? And so I was told we hear you and we want to keep you here. Your fingerprints are all over this company. We want to keep you here. So what could we do? And I told them here are the things that I see, these are the things that I would like to be doing, and this is my solution. And so they said we'll come up with two different job descriptions and we'll bring those to you so that you can choose which one you want to have. And a week later they came to me and I was expecting to see two different jobs and instead I got we can't afford you, so we're going to let you go.

Speaker 2: 9:04

And that like me asking for what I would work, and I'm not willing to give you any more of my time to breathe and take time away from my family, take time away from just social life. Friends, I was working nonstop because I was involved in, because I was still full time. I just was working nonstop, and so I was tired of burnout and I was tired of it. I was ready to move on and I didn't want to be the one to do that. I wanted them to have to make that decision, because it's not fair to force someone out by making them make that call when they love what they do and they're good at what they do and they never receive any negative feedback. So if they don't, if they can't afford me, then they need to tell me that. Otherwise I'm gonna, I'm gonna do everything I can to go and fix this problem. Yeah, until, like I realize it's a topic right Like that's a topic that is, that's like.

Speaker 1: 10:16

I mean, that's the thing is like I'll keep trying, I'll keep trying, I'll keep trying, but, like you know, everybody has to be on board with the trying and, like someone, has to be like filling your cup back right, because otherwise you're just constantly emptying it out. Um, you know, I it's so interesting you say that because one of the things that I've noticed happens consistently in big or small companies is that you know, you've got this great company, everybody feels like a family, everybody's feeling great, and then at some point, typically the pressure or there's, there's like a and you talked about it a little bit in our first version of this, so I'm sort of guided. Yeah, so I'm gonna, I'm taking you back in there because I loved, I loved that part of the conversation that you had is what is it that you think happens in these spaces where, like, everything's great and then suddenly it's not?

Speaker 2: 11:03

Yeah, Um, well, I was.

Speaker 2: 11:07

I think the biggest takeaway from this full experience has really been just that people can lead any company.

Speaker 2: 11:18

Anybody can lead any company if things are going well, because there's not a lot that you have to do decision-wise, you just keep doing what you were doing and and you can kind of go on autopilot, I think. But it's really difficult to be a good leader when things get hard, like revenue being down. That's a huge issue for any company and that's when your leadership feels really get put to the test. And if you're putting a giant word like empathy in your mission statement and you're not treating people with empathy in those hard times, there's a problem. Yeah, there's a really big problem and to me that's that was the biggest indicator is like when the employees are are asking if they need to take out personal loans to give to the company so that they can keep their job, and the employees are mentally just so like broken by the system that they're in that they don't feel like they can speak up safely and that just crushes their souls and I just I can't get behind that if you've gotten this thing with empathy and doesn't seem right.

Speaker 1: 12:48

You know, I feel like a lot of companies tend to have their mission statements, you know, the ones that are related to caring, empathy, alleviating suffering, all those things, right, it's about the client, right? Or the person on the outside, and not so much on. You know. And I think, though, that, like you know, because I've had a very similar experience and it's interesting because most of my toxic relationships in my life have been work related it's really weird, like I just tend to gravitate towards that, and you know, what I found is that they're very like, they care, like you said, they care about everybody right at the beginning, and then, when, when the going gets tough, there's like a scarcity panic, that kind of sets in, and it's almost like a child flailing right, and where it's almost that, where the person who, the toxic person, because, typically, if you have a boss or if you have someone who is, like, done the work and who is actually empathetic, then it's going to be a very different experience from you know, a boss who is, like, say, a narcissist. You know masquerading, you know in empathy, clothes, right and so, and then now, like, things get hard and the mask falls off and now, suddenly, it's like you see someone's true colors.

Speaker 1: 14:03

So I think, and I think, like you said, money makes it easier for people to be nice or for people to ignore things that are bad.

Speaker 1: 14:11

Because you're making so much money, it'll allow you to look the other way, even as an employee, if the circumstances aren't great.

Speaker 1: 14:16

Because you've got the whole golden handcuffs and you mentioned the last time we talked that you were actually writing another book on this and so because, like, it moved you, so tell me, I'd like to know a little bit more. Because, like, the hardest part for somebody who's in a toxic workplace is that they don't know that they're in a toxic workplace, they think this is just how it is and they're also being gaslit and capitalism is set up so that the community will regulate itself and like, keep everybody believing that everything's fine. So you mentioned earlier one of the flags is, you know, if you feel like you need to record things, which, admittedly, is like at that point, if you were at that point, there were like several points along the way where you were sort of some curious to know. You know what are some of those things along the way as you write your next book where people earlier on may be able to identify that this might not be a healthy place to be or healthy for them.

Speaker 2: 15:07

Yeah, I think well you have to be really sensitive to those feelings and trust them when you're picking up on that stuff. So I think, like for me, a big red flag is saying that you're about something and then not actually following through. So if values, company values or mission statements aren't aligning and that's already a big question mark because the culture doesn't reflect it people not feeling safe to speak up and ask questions like thoughtful questions that show that they really care about the company and the forward motion of the business. Being told that it's not actually a priority or that they're overstepping by asking or, I think, probably being told.

Speaker 2: 16:21

I think a lot of it just keeps coming back to gaslighting. I'm talking to like really, really lies in my head like what is it? And it really is just like it's a gaslighting culture and it's like wanting resources being told we want to support your professional development and then not being for resources and being told no, and being told you're going to move into this promotion and this is the position you're going to have, and then a white man coming and taking that job from you instead.

Speaker 2: 17:00

And you're still here Like there's being held back, feeling silent, feeling like you can't get the support. You're being like you're asking for support. You can't get the resources you need. Yeah, your job better, but they expect you to pull rabbits out of hats all the long and there's nowhere. There's nowhere to find the rabbit.

Speaker 1: 17:25

You know, I think others like as you're talking about, I'm thinking of, like some of the other red flags that have popped up. You know where it's like, I think, where people are constantly being asked to be team players and take on more work because there's high turnover, right, and so now people are having to take on more work, but there's not a lot, there's not more pay, there's also no end in sight for the more work. So now you have like, and these people then tend to get burned out. You know I think you said this earlier. I want to come back to that because I think it's so important is like trust your feelings, because, like one of the things that my wife and I my wife said this this is really interesting. So when you know where my wife and I are both transitioning and she uses her pronouns pronouns where she her and when she talks about people misgendering her she said to me it's really funny because you know she didn't used to have be very like. She wasn't, she didn't buy into the woo very much now, but now she like really buys into the woo, which is great. We have all these woo conversations now. It's fabulous.

Speaker 1: 18:30

But early on she said that she, you can tell when someone's trying. So like, even if someone messes up, you can tell when someone's trying. And up until she said that to me, I had also been able to tell when someone's trying. But I always felt silly saying, listen, I know if you're trying and I know if you're not right, because it's that, but you can tell right. And it made me realize that so many of us have these superpowers to be able to sort of just tell if someone is being disingenuous, if someone is mistreating us because of character, a physical characteristic, or you know, we know right, and but then we gaslight ourselves or if we bring it up, they will gaslight us. And so I want to go back to what you said earlier, which is really that if you have a gut feeling, or if you have your spidey senses or tingling, don't gaslight yourself into thinking you don't have spidey senses. You have spidey senses.

Speaker 2: 19:23

You do and you know it's. It's really important to trust your intuition. It's there for a reason and I think we silence it so often in the name of keeping the peace and not rocking the boat. But but it's a gift from God to have that and and I think that you know you're absolutely right. Like people, if people are making a really good situation and you feel icky about it, there's a reason you feel icky about it. If you leave any situation feeling drained, in a negative, awful way, that's your red flag. It's not a good fit for you.

Speaker 1: 20:10

So what now? You know it's. It's interesting because, like, as we think about that, like for not not, you and I were both in. You know we talked about this last time that we've both been really fortunate, have had the privilege of being able to build that confidence from making money, from freelancing or doing other things. That gave, that, built a foundation under us that a lot of us take some of those next steps, you know. So I'm curious, like if you like, if someone is in that position and they're like shit, I don't have that. How do I move into, like some sort of different space? And I guess this is going to go back sort of to your book because, as you know, as you start to realize you're in a toxic situation, how do you begin to plan for your eventual departure from it, whether it's work or personal?

Speaker 2: 21:00

Well, you mentioned human design earlier and I think it was interesting because I didn't know this about myself until I found out that I was a reflector. But I think it took me a long time to make that decision. I, because of the type of person I am, I want to feed all of the information. I want to know without a shadow of a doubt that whatever I'm choosing to do is fully informed and I have the right information. And so it takes me longer, I think, to recognize and to leave those toxic relationships, Not because I don't like.

Speaker 2: 21:40

I know that they're not right for me, but it's because I want to make sure that I did everything I could on my side, that my side of the street is clean and I have done what I need to do, and so I wait and I gather the data and. I take the notes and I record the videos and I, you know, I have the history laid before me so that I can see I showed up here, here, here. This is how they showed up and this is the pattern. Now the pattern looks toxic. Now I have confirmed that the pattern is toxic.

Speaker 2: 22:15

Now I know that it is time to move on. So in the case of the job that I was laid off from, I, like two or three weeks before I got laid off, I told some friends if they don't get it together by June 30th, I'm going to jump without a net. I'm just going to do it, and when they called me on June 9th.

Speaker 2: 22:35

They said your last day is June 30th. The universe is hilarious and I hate that. I had to feel like you know, the panic and the blindsided feeling of being like off, even when I knew it was coming. I didn't know it was coming that day. I thought I would be more in control of it. It didn't happen how I wanted. That's very upsetting. It's very disorienting to be laid off, but I had to have that experience. I had to have that experience because I think number one it really helped me to relate to other people who have gone through those really painful things, if I have also experienced them. So in my book I write about divorce, walking away from toxic parents, a miscarriage. Now I've experienced being laid off Like these are big life things that happen to people and they're painful for people. And now that I have this experience and I have found a way out for myself, I feel better equipped to talk to other people and to encourage them on their path.

Speaker 1: 23:51

You know it's interesting in your book, you do, and I recommend everyone get the book, just definitely get the book. It's like so good and as I was reading it, you know, I felt like you know, so it was really interesting because, like, first of all, I feel like you're telling me a story, like in front of me, so like we're talking, and as certain things happen I'm like, oh no, girls don't do that. And oh no, stop. You know, just because you see it happening. And once you've actually been through the experience, you know, of that kind of toxicity, you can pick up on all the signs and you're like, oh yeah, I see it there, I see it there, and you know, I think what was really great about your book is that it kind of, if someone reads it and they're in a toxic relationship right now, they'll be able to pick up on those signs, like right away, like you know, because they're very, they're very obvious once you know what they are. But then if somebody, someone is, you know, and then of course that starts their journey. But like I think we talked earlier about how lonely it is to be in those relationships because you're gaslit by the person that is supposed to be taking care of you or supposed to be providing you with something either it's a salary, it's you know, it's safety and whatever it is and, honestly, when a boss or an employer is not living up to that side of it like they're supposed to provide you with a safe working environment, so like they are not living up to their side of the bargain I think you have such a poignant roadmap for how to get out.

Speaker 1: 25:19

You know and like what you did and you're very raw about it. So we didn't get this, we didn't get this on this recording. So now I'm going to ask the question, because your book is raw and it's it's like, it's it's honest and but it's also like it takes you to that place where you're like okay, I can do this too. Were you scared writing it? I was terrified.

Speaker 2: 25:44

I was terrified. I think like, well, for one, writing a memoir is a very personal experience.

Speaker 2: 25:56

You're really sharing a lot of things that maybe don't want people to know, like there's a lot of ugly, that I had worked most of my life to deep under the rug and to not let people see. But it's a bit of a feeling, exposed, I guess. But I think that the best thing that I did for myself was write that, because I started just writing for my own healing but then I, when I realized this is this may be help helping other people too, that just made it worth so much more the all the heartbreak and the grief and the pain and the crying on the bathroom floor like all of that was worth something, because now I have something that maybe will help other people, and so here exists always.

Speaker 2: 26:58

But you move through it because you know that you have something to offer, something to give someone to help, and it's a work of art. It's a work of art. It's like a music painting Music painting. I write books. This was my first one and I learned a lot, and I feel like I learned a lot about myself. I think everyone should write a book.

Speaker 1: 27:31

I'm writing my book. I'm writing a book. Yes, I joined a tiny book course recommended to you by Judy Harrington, and I'm writing a tiny book. This weekend is buckling down and the purpose is to write a short book. Get it out quickly. I'm excited about doing that, just so I can say what you just did. You said, oh, my first book. And I'm like, whoa, we're all a first book. Now you're writing your second book. I'm like that's what happens when you write a book. You're like I can write a second and a third. I want to do that. I'm curious how do you feel now that it's published? I mean because, first of all, dude, you wrote a book. Congratulations, that's fucking amazing. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 28:10

I don't know if I've celebrated it.

Speaker 1: 28:14

My wife has been telling me for years that I don't take victory laps, and she's like you never take a victory lap. It's part of my trauma response, which is that what's next? What's next? You just always got to be doing something. Part of it is because, as long as you're doing something, nothing bad will happen. I'm not entirely sure that that's actually true, but it's what I feel inside, so let's go with it.

Speaker 1: 28:39

She really has taught me the value of taking a victory lap, and it has absolutely made such a difference. Now I feel like we're going to have to have you on in another six months and see what you did to celebrate. Has your life changed at all? Do you find that random people message you? How has your life changed since writing the book?

Speaker 2: 29:04

It hasn't changed all that much. I guess I feel like I am always honored when someone will reach out and say how the book has touched them or helped them through something. It's been a few months now and I still get those messages regularly. I had someone that said thank you for writing this, that said it's helping me to realize I'm not crazy. I'm not the crazy one. I really feel like I set out to help one person and I've already seated that number.

Speaker 1: 29:48

I can say two for sure that person who messaged you and me, everyone else who's no doubt also messaged you. I think really the hardest part is finding a mirror to be able to see what it is, because it's so hard to see it when you're in it and you think you are crazy. That's really the key is thinking that you are crazy, getting to a space where I can validate myself. I don't need someone else to validate that this is happening to me. I am enough validation. I find sometimes that I forget that I've done that work and I'll start to seek out. Do you ever find that you start to slip and you're like, oh no wait, I did all this work. Can you find your way back quicker?

Speaker 2: 30:37

Yeah, well, yes, I think that I mean, if we're talking about just recognizing what's healthy, I think I have very much condensed the timeframe. It took me 14 years in a marriage to realize that this is unhealthy for me and I need to get out. With the work situation. I mean once it started getting bad. It only took me nine months Look at the growth there.

Speaker 1: 31:11

That's a lot of growth. That's the great part. The next time because here's the thing right is that the people are still going to be there, the situations are still going to happen. Life is life, but now we're able to see the signs sooner and sooner and sooner until at some point you get to the point where you've done it enough, to where you're just like oh yeah, I know you, I know you. No, thank you.

Speaker 2: 31:36

I've been there before All right.

Speaker 1: 31:41

I would love to know to my audience. First of all, I'm going to put the link to your book in here, because the book is amazing. Everyone should read it. You also have a lot of other fun stuff. Where can people find you? I actually also like it if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about. You said you're a freelancer and I love to connect people with the resources that they need. Maybe, before we dive into how they can find you, tell me about your freelance business. What do you?

Speaker 2: 32:08

do. Well, I am freelance writing mostly and consulting for people like social media marketing, that sort of thing. It's fine. I don't know. I'm still figuring it out after having been laid off. I look at the people that I get to work with right now. I'm really grateful for that work. I don't know where that's going.

Speaker 1: 32:35

Hey, dude, I love it. Just do the thing and we'll see where it goes. Let's say, someone's like dude, you've told me enough to where I'm curious about. I may want to hire you to do something. Where would they? How would they just send you an email or find you on Instagram? That's what they ask me about Sharelove everywhere. Right, that's it. Yeah, that's it. Thank you so much for joining me today. You was absolutely amazing. I'm so glad that you have your voice back and that everybody is going to get to hear from you. You are absolutely fabulous. Are there any parting words you'd like to leave for my friends?

Speaker 2: 33:07

I'm just really grateful that you've had me in this time. I'm so glad that I got a friend in you and it's been a huge honor to be here with you today and I'm grateful for knowing you.