Maybe You're the one Who's been Right All Along? With Beth Knaus

Have you ever found yourself doubting your skills or talents, even when you're great at what you do? You're not alone. I had the privilege of sitting down with the incredible Beth Knaus, a brilliant editor, podcast host, speaker, and confident female entrepreneur who knows the struggle of self-doubt all too well. Beth has spent years intentionally building a foundation that allows her to communicate confidently. Together, we explored the labyrinth of self-doubt and the importance of confidence in our personal and professional lives. 

Our conversation ranged from professionalism and brand messaging to the power of clear communication. Beth narrated her professional journey, which took her from the beauty industry to being a renowned copywriter and brand messaging consultant. She emphasized the key to being a professional is not in the superficial details but in your ability to solve a client's problem. We reflected on our experiences with career transitions, the importance of finding a career that fits our strengths, and the challenges of overcoming self-doubt. Beth offered insightful advice on how to navigate these transitions while maintaining your confidence.

We also delved into brand messaging, exploring the importance of clarity in your message to bolster online confidence. We touched upon the dangers of perfectionism and how to tackle naysayers when pursuing your goals. Beth shared her experiences of achieving dreams through setting goals and the importance of community support in our pursuit of success. Her journey is a testament to the power of confidence and perseverance, a story that is sure to inspire and motivate you to push past self-doubt and achieve your goals. Don't miss out on this enlightening discussion with Beth Knaus. It's time to overcome self-doubt, embrace your strengths and confidently step into your success.

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🎵 Thank you to Karacter for allowing me to use Telepathy (2005) in my intro.
This is one of my favorite albums of all time.
👉 Check it out: https://karacter.bandcamp.com/album/karacter

Transcript

Minessa Konecky: 0:05

Hello, hello and welcome to the Stop Shitting All Over Yourself podcast. I am your Minessa Konecky, and today I have with me an incredible, incredible editor, podcast host, speaker and just all-around awesome person, beth Knauss. I met Beth about a year ago at the South Shore Conference for Women. It was kind of like a passing by thing, because we've met a few times, you know, just sort of in passing, in networking groups and communities, but we never really had an opportunity to kind of sit and like talk and get to know each other and that kind of thing, except at the South Shore Conference for Women. We had a brief conversation in the hallway and we just had so much fun. We were like you know what we really need to get on the podcast together. So I ended up listening to her podcast with Nancy Methoff a lot, and so I was like, oh wait, hold on, I want her on my podcast too, and so I invited her to the podcast to come join us. Now here's what I love about Beth. Okay, so this is like really cool.

Minessa Konecky: 1:01

So many of us go through life doubting ourselves constantly about everything, feeling like what we say is wrong, what we think is wrong, what we do is wrong, and when we bring up our ideas in meetings or conversations, we're worried that people are going to think that it's a stupid idea, which is why many of us will sometimes say things like if that makes sense? Or and I say that all the time does that make sense? Or and I'm trying to break that habit or of you know, I don't know if anybody's talked about this before, but we tend to be so diminutive when we share our ideas or our thoughts, and we often assume, if somebody disagrees with us or says, oh no, that's not the way it is, that we are the ones in the wrong right. And then, oh, I'm sorry, I'll check, and like we doubt ourselves and we gaslight ourselves, like I'll be honest, I am the queen king pharaoh of doing this, constantly doubting myself when I am challenged. Now, it's not because I don't know what I'm talking about as much as it's because of a lifetime of that kind of conditioning that leads you to gaslight yourself.

Minessa Konecky: 2:05

And this can often happen with people who are chronically ill. It can happen with people who have had trauma in their lives. It happens enormously disproportionately to people of color and women, and so this is something that you may be very, very familiar with, especially if you're used to being talked over when or someone else you know. Like you give an idea in a space and someone else gives the idea a few minutes later and suddenly it's a brilliant idea, but when you gave the idea nobody was listening. Those kinds of patterns over the years they take a toll, and what I found really refreshing talking to Beth was that she didn't have any of that underlying kind of like self-doubt. I'm sure that some of it exists, you know, on some level, because we all have it on some level, but like, I didn't see it and instead what I saw was someone who has been really intentional over the years but who had a foundation that was. You know.

Minessa Konecky: 2:54

She talks in the podcast about the foundation that was built underneath her to create this confidence and this support that she has for herself that has allowed her to now, as an adult, really be confident in her message, in her voice, in the things she has to say, her ideas, and I think that you will also be like my God, what a refreshing perspective to talk to somebody who is so like yeah, no, I'm not worried, this is everything's fine, everything will happen, and really truly mean it. And what I loved most about the conversation was not just that she shared, like, where a lot of these ideas came from for her, and she shares her things that haven't quite yet made it to fruition yet, but that she's like, oh, it'll happen when it happens, with enormous amount of confidence. But she also acts as a model, right, because one of the hardest things for all of us is how do I demonstrate confidence without seeming braggy, how do I demonstrate confidence without thinking that I'm all that? Because we're conditioned to not to do that, especially as women and as people of color. And so she has a really great model.

Minessa Konecky: 4:01

Just by listening to her, you will hear her talk about her, her her business, her life, the things that she does with so much calm confidence. But it never you don't get any of those feelings that a lot of us worry about, that we're going to give if we're, if we talk about our accomplishments and how great we are and how great we've done things and so on. So this is like a fabulous, fabulous podcast to listen to for that reason alone. So I'm not going to keep you from this any longer, because now that you know that there's a model out there for how we can say look at how awesome I am without feeling bad about it let's listen in.

Minessa Konecky: 4:33

Hello everyone, welcome to the stop shutting all over yourself podcast. I am here with Beth, who has the most amazing earrings on right now. Beth, tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you? Where do you come?

Beth Knaus: 4:45

from what do you do? So? I am a copywriter and a brand messaging consultant. I own a company called Beth's Asfade Copywriting Services and I write all kinds of content for confident female entrepreneurs who know they have a unique message and really want to stand out. But they need help putting that in their content and sometimes they're the type of person who's, you know, a little out of the box, a little bit of a respectful nonconformist, a little edgy, and they want to walk the line between honoring who they are and also showing up professionally.

Minessa Konecky: 5:24

Yeah, I love okay. So actually I'm so curious. I want to ask you this question because I've been wondering about this for myself for a while, because I'm not known for being the most professional person in the world, right? How do you define professionally? I'm so curious about that.

Beth Knaus: 5:40

Well, I think that's relative to each person, right, because I feel like some people like well, I'm supposed to do this and I'm supposed to say that, and oftentimes we have to work through that stuff. You know to me, to show up professionally, you have to have some proof, right. You have to have social proof, you have to have kind of portfolio proof or resume proof or that sort of thing. Other than that, I think that if you can talk clearly about what you have to offer people, I think that's professional and I think it's professional to your target client is the key point too.

Minessa Konecky: 6:20

That's a good point because, like the truth is is like there's, we're never going to have a stuffy person in suits who's going to want to listen to my podcast or watch my show, or that's not my audience, I really I so because I I I've always struggled with professionalism and it's it's one of those things where and not, I think, professionalism by the definition of the pro conditioning that we've all had and what professionalism is. So I like the way that you framed it, because it's like the professional. The true thing that actually matters is can I solve your problem? Do I have something that works, aside from the things that are like, really relevant to the client and the customer? Does it actually matter if my hair is blue or you know that kind of thing? And I've always felt that tension in corporate America. I'm curious, did you find that tension yourself? You know, over the years I have never spent a day in corporate.

Beth Knaus: 7:13

Oh my God, I love you. That is so cool. I know, right, I am yeah, so you probably don't know any of this. I've been in the beauty industry in different capacities. So because I went in high school I went to get my hairdressers licensed. But I also went to college and got a degree in small business management because I knew I wanted to open a business. So when I moved to Boston I did open a hair salon in in the financial district and I loved it. I sold it to stay home with my kids, cut some hair at home. But I worked as an educator for a hair care company. I worked at trade shows, I worked backstage, I worked in sales, I did a bunch of different stuff and then later I worked for a company called Art Matters and I did art presentations for groups. So like history, awareness and that was a really great job too, and so always things that had to do with communication and creativity, and so when people talk about corporate, I'm like like what, like what's happening.

Minessa Konecky: 8:17

That's amazing, you know. It's interesting because, like so much of my audience is, typically they're small business owners. They've all been small business owners. I bounced in and out of those. I actually never thought I'd run my own business. It was terrifying. I fell into it by accident. I was like damn.

Beth Knaus: 8:30

I really love this.

Minessa Konecky: 8:32

And I did enjoy it for many years. I'm taking a little bit of a break now but, like and I'm taking it for like a reason, right, but I'm like you know, I know I'm going to go back. Like it's because I really do like the independence, like I really don't like dude, I really cannot stand having to clock in and clock out Like it's just in, like, oh, I'm just like, okay, this is the price you pay inside. I'm like, um, okay, so let's come back to the name of your business, cause it's so cool. I'm curious where did the name come?

Beth Knaus: 9:01

from. So I was raised by my dad who was a really wonderful communicator and knew how to compassionately be direct. So there was never any, you know, beating around the bush or things like that. And if it was a difficult subject he would say let's call a spade a spade.

Minessa Konecky: 9:18

I see. So you're like all right, I love it, I love the name, I love what you do and I mean, and I love your audience, because your audience is me, so of course I love your audience. So to give people a little bit of background, beth and I are, you know we're. We're both local to Massachusetts. Now I think we both moved here. Where did you move from? I grew up in Long Island and Long Island. Oh okay, so you also say water? I try, not to.

Minessa Konecky: 9:47

My wife is from New Jersey, my therapist is from Long Island and so, like anytime I hear someone say, I'm like, oh hey, how do you?

Beth Knaus: 9:55

That's right. I know where you're from. Yeah, Now, when I started to, when I worked as an educator, as for a hair care company, I heard myself a lot right, and then I want to do those art presentations, and so I was like I want to sound neutral, I want to be as neutral as possible. So my kids will say when I'm angry and after I've been to New York they can hear it.

Minessa Konecky: 10:17

But not now. Do your kids did. They were they raised here in Massachusetts. Okay, so do they have any inkling of the mass accent? Or like drop their R's ever?

Beth Knaus: 10:28

You know it's funny? I don't think so, and I think so. My older daughter went to Philly for college and then she lived there for four years. So that's a whole different thing and I think she's got the same thing. But I think, because they heard me trying to be pretty neutral, they kind of went with that.

Minessa Konecky: 10:44

Yeah, yeah, I totally do real that. I'm just curious about this. Tell me that. But coming back to like, why we? So I was listening to the anniversary for the unmute yourself podcast, which, if nobody's listened to it yet, my listeners should already be listening to it. But if you have it, you need to go listen to it right now. Because I've talked about I talked about Nancy like constantly her book, unmute yourself. I literally changed my whole life. I give it away. I have copies that I just hand out to people. I'm like here you go, take this book. Then why are you giving it to me? Because you need this book, trust me, just take it.

Minessa Konecky: 11:17

And you were talking about we were talking about sharing our ideas, right and like, and sharing our vision and ideas, and the conversation really came in. I sort of want to delve into that a little bit about, like, the fear of sharing our ideas and like the response for those you know, because I'll admit even now, like I, have ideas that are really not in alignment with the way that we have typically been told. You handle that. You manage people at work right. So my philosophy is you start with the employee and identify how to create joy and happiness in their lives, in their work, and they will then generate all of the work that is needed. They won't need you to oversee them, they will be self-motivated to do things.

Minessa Konecky: 12:04

But you got to start with the employee. But everywhere I've ever been, it's always top down, top down. You've got to. You know that kind of thing. And anytime I have an idea, I always feel this pain in my chest of like because they'll be like no, you can't do it that way and I'm like I'm an idiot, I'm totally an idiot, I know nothing. And that was kind of what you and Nancy were talking about. It really, really resonated with me. So I'm curious, like, when you think about that kind of, you know, bringing up your people's ideas in places where they might be rejected, what are some of the things that come to mind for you?

Beth Knaus: 12:38

So first of all, I'm going to go back to what you just said. So when I had my business, I'm going, but I don't even want to tell you how far back it was before the millennium, and that's all I'll say I had 10 employees and everybody was motivated by something different. Not everybody got the same opportunities or got the same pay. Not everybody's looking for money, right. Some people are looking to be educated, some people are looking to be stroked, some people are looking for a leadership position.

Beth Knaus: 13:06

So, you know, I think you're right, you need to listen to people and hear what they see for themselves. You may not see it, but I think you have to be open to that. And I don't I'm not scared really personally, to say things to people about what I'm thinking, but, like when I share something I want to be able to say to you, manessa, I see myself on the stage at the Berkeley Performance Center talking to people about my book and you know other people would be like what? Like? Because they just don't have that kind of vision and so they don't see it. So I, fun fact, own a movie script.

Minessa Konecky: 13:45

Oh yes, the movie you're making.

Beth Knaus: 13:47

It will be made. It will be made eventually. Hey, movie scripts are evergreen people, so if anybody has one, you never know. But I had somebody attend me. Well, you know, do you really think that this is a thing that it's really going to happen? Where are you going to get the money? Where are you going to? Blah, blah, blah. And this was somebody who was just stuck in, like not that there's anything wrong with middle class, because I'm here, just stuck in that middle class place, just like not motivated to like expand or do anything. And it was just like well, why would you want to do that? And I was like you know what? I'm going to have a journey one way or the other. I have met fabulous people. I've got to edit a movie script. I've got to go to New York on multiple trips. We had a reading. You know, lots of things happen that were wonderful for me and the movie hasn't been made yet, but it could get made. So it's not over and I see that as this fun thing that I have on the side.

Beth Knaus: 14:49

But I remember when, before I opened my business, you know, I talked about having a business and I was young. So people would be like, yeah, okay, whatever your hairdresser. Yeah, sure, you're going to have a business. I moved to Boston. I didn't like the people I worked for and my father was like you know what, when I think you're ready, I'll give you the money to get started in business. And I was like a month later I called him up. I'm like, listen, I took credit card advance and I signed a lease and I'm opening, you know, a space. That's amazing. I'm not waiting for you to say I'm ready. I know if I'm ready, I know what I'm capable of, but I know that not everybody has that.

Minessa Konecky: 15:26

Oh my God, you just hit so much key stuff there. Because, like you know, I think one of the things that has been such a challenge is and this is why I named the podcast Stop Shooting All Over Yourself, right? Everybody has an opinion about the things you should be doing or what you should do, right? So you say, I've got a movie script right and I can see the people going well, oh my God, this is going to fail and she's going to be so devastated. So what can I? You know?

Minessa Konecky: 15:51

Because, like, they're afraid of failure, it has nothing to do with you, it has to do with their own fears, their own anxieties. Like, oh my God, you're so brave, I don't feel like I can do that, and they will kind of project their fears onto the other person. And I think that, like, what you described as yourself is so confident, right, you're just like, that's fine, I know what I'm doing. But, like, as you mentioned, more people than not I would like, myself included would take that feedback and then, like, start doubting ourselves, right, and like, yeah, so how, like how do you manage? Did you ever?

Beth Knaus: 16:27

doubt yourself.

Minessa Konecky: 16:27

You know when you were doing these things, and how do you deal with that doubt when it pops up?

Beth Knaus: 16:31

I mean I definitely have had times where I'm like what do I have to do to make this happen? Can I really make this happen? Is this a real thing? But never, I never stopped myself. I never let that stop me and say, okay, this isn't going to happen For me. Instead of failure, I like to think of like detours. I'll be like okay.

Beth Knaus: 16:52

I'm heading in this direction. Maybe it's not going exactly how I want. How do I change that? And to keep heading towards what I want? Or maybe you know? Is there a plan B? Is there another version of this thing?

Minessa Konecky: 17:07

like, how can I make it work for me? Rather than because, like a lot of times, we'll come up with our vision and our idea, but like it's the beginning of the vision, right? You're like, okay, I'm gonna dream it all out and I'm gonna say this is exactly how it's gonna go. But as you start to like, plant the seeds and move forward, you'll run into like roadblocks and challenges that, like you have to massage and I might, like you said, a detour. It might take you in a different direction, but that direction could be a positive direction.

Minessa Konecky: 17:33

I think that a lot of people are actually scared of what if that direction is the bad, like when they see that roadblock, that road like the challenge, it's like a sign that I shouldn't do it, or it's like a bad thing, you know, like.

Beth Knaus: 17:46

Yeah, I mean, you know what I think. At the end of the day, people have to decide. You know, anything of value takes work. Anything of long lasting value is going to be an investment of time. It's not. You know, for a long time I was very much into finish lines. If I could get to this point and pay these bills, I can take this trip, If I can get to this point, and that's just a part of the journey. Right. Then it's like, okay, well, what's gonna be next? And can you look a little further out and see where you can go with that, instead of saying, well, I got to this point, it's not where I want it to be, so I'm gonna stop and it's not gonna happen.

Minessa Konecky: 18:24

You know there's a lot of I feel like you know, when you like I know for sure that there've been. Definitely, when I look back on my life, I can see that there are places that I got to a certain point and I was like, yeah, nope, I'm not moving forward on this, and there's other things. So I'm curious, like in your life, like I found that those things are like not meant for this version of myself, like maybe another version of myself did that, like became an archeologist and you know I did archeology for years, but like I wanted to eat and make money you know it's not a lot of money in archeology, and so I went to the healthcare industry where there's, you know, ample opportunity and lots of money and lots of security.

Minessa Konecky: 19:02

But then, you know, then I ended up falling into business ownership, which turned it as, like you know, everything kind of leads you on a path. So have you had things that you were like sort of like that? You're, you did, and then you're like, all right, I've done it as far as I want to. I actually really don't want to pay the price I'm gonna have to pay to move it to that next level.

Beth Knaus: 19:18

Yeah, no at. You know, at one point, like I said, I worked in sales and I hated it. I was not gonna be a salesperson. I could very easily say to myself this isn't going so well. Today I'm gonna go to TGI Fridays, for you know, with my friend. I had a friend actually we did sales together and she was great. She went on to be really good in sales, but together it was bad, and be like oh man, this is disappointing. Let's just go have lunch and a drink and then wash soap operas. You know, it just wasn't my thing. Direct sales, I mean, you know any, and I don't mean direct sales like MLM, I mean like selling.

Minessa Konecky: 19:53

Directly selling to somebody.

Beth Knaus: 19:54

Yeah, so you know, I knew that wasn't for me. I did actually work in an office, briefly, we wanted to go to Disney. We wanted to go to Disney and need a little extra money. So I was like, oh, my friend worked in an office and she said we need some help with this. And I went in and from day one I was like I was probably pale, I was probably green, I just no, I can't do this.

Beth Knaus: 20:19

No sitting at a desk, just like data entry. I was like this is I. Could, you know, sell pictures of my feet for much more money? Yes, this is not good.

Minessa Konecky: 20:27

Dude, only fans you can literally sell. You definitely feet are a really big thing. Just saying, in case anybody's listening and you want to start your business, there you go, that's right. But so you know you yourself don't deal. It sounds like you've worked through all of whatever issues like that a lot of people work through when they're dealing with something. So I'm curious because and just the way you talk it's evident that sort of like you found you've got the way that obviously that's why you became a copywriter. So I'm curious with your clients, right Cause like not, do they all come to you confident and ready? Or do they come to you? Do you ever have people come to you who are like like I was arguing me five years ago where I'm still I'm this person but I haven't yet sort of emerged out. I kind of, yet I'm still trying to get that confidence, like, do you help them with that and in terms of figuring that out?

Beth Knaus: 21:19

Yeah. So a lot of that is about clarity. I mean, you know a lot of people who started businesses and there's so many things to do that it's very easy to delegate things like brand messaging. You know, like you answer a questionnaire and then the person says to you, well, this is what I came up with. I say yeah, yeah, that's good, instead of really taking the time to like like I have a questionnaire that is overwhelming and I say to people, this is not, you're not going to finish this in a day. You need to, over a week, take an hour here, an hour there, go back and read what you wrote and really dive into it. Don't brush it off, don't be surface, because you have other things to do, because you really need to figure out who the heck you are. Yeah, and then once they get there, I mean I just really love that, because then if we can come up with the messaging that they're happy with, I see them.

Beth Knaus: 22:09

They're just so confident online, right? You know those people who stumble over there like intros and their elevator pitches. They're just not sure. They're constantly changing it. You know if somebody is clear on who they are and how they want to talk about it and how they want to talk to their audience. They just relax and then they can post about it and write blogs about it, and or I can write for them, because they're very clear on what they want to say. Right, they need to be comfortable and they need to be confident, and then it's just like a go. It's interesting to watch.

Minessa Konecky: 22:42

Yeah, oh, absolutely, because you know, in my coaching over the years which I don't coach anymore, but over the years that was one of the things that was the most enjoyable, because once somebody figures out what they stand for and their message, everything else gets a lot easier. But I mean, I guess I found that that's typically the part that people want to rush over. They don't want to spend a lot of time on it. Why do you think that is?

Beth Knaus: 23:08

Well, I think, you know, I mean we could have a separate podcast about this alone. But I think it was funny. I was just listening to you with your sister and talking about the whole extravagance and guilt thing, and you were like it's women. And you know, I don't like to say that because I really want women to not be this way. But women are like, oh, you know, I don't want to brag, I don't want to look back on my past, I don't want to. You know, I don't want to show off.

Minessa Konecky: 23:37

I don't want to, I just want to.

Beth Knaus: 23:38

I want to help other people. I just want to talk so that people understand that I want to help them. You know what Enough we can't all be Mother Teresa. We are doing these things because we're passionate about them and we thrive off of them and we get something out of it, right, yeah, and when you have the right messaging, you can talk to specifically the right client. You're going to do your best work. They're going to get your best work. You're everybody's going to be happy. You're going to get testimonials and referrals and you're going to be able to charge good money for good service and value. So why wouldn't you talk about yourself in the way that's going to get that? And there's such a disconnect there. But I do think they have.

Beth Knaus: 24:24

People have trouble seeing things in themselves also, like I had a conversation with somebody recently I'm going to work with and she was somebody I saw as super confident and really capable in what she's doing. And we have this conversation and I was like you know you have this in your background and this in your background and this in your background. That means that you're capable of ABCDE. And she was like I never really thought of it that way and it's like people want to say I have these degrees, I have these certifications. You know, I had this internship, I went to this college and that's just great. I'm not downplaying that, but a lot of people have that.

Beth Knaus: 25:03

Right A lot of people have that. So what did you have before that or along the way? That are your individual wins, talent, skills, perspectives, philosophies that you built that other people don't have in your industry. That's where the differences are and people don't think about it. They don't think about I went on this trip with my family, or I had lost in my life and I had to do this, or they just don't see the value of it until somebody says you know, that's incredible, right. And then they're like I never thought of it that way.

Minessa Konecky: 25:40

I love you saying this. I literally had this conversation with my sister because she, you know she's, and she's totally chill with me talking about this stuff, but she left confident. I mean, I do too, but like hers, you know she's. We talk often about how our journeys are just a little bit like you know, she's, a little bit there, right, but she's also fast in general. So she's we're kind of moving in the same space as now.

Minessa Konecky: 25:59

But one of the areas that she struggles is confidence, and she's a Christ. She's one of the most strategic, politically brilliant people, and I don't mean politics like you know, republicans are in politics and interpersonal politics and she has such a gift. But she doesn't see the gift that she has for creating consensus, right, and so she'll talk about her degrees and where she worked and what she did and so on. But she recently went through an exercise with a resume writer who we did her whole like and she the end goal was really for her to just think differently. She's like I'm probably going to read my resume again anyway, based off of how I want to do it, but I need someone to make me think differently, because I don't know how to think other than this. These are my degrees, this is where I work, this is what I did and, like you said, I mean that looks the same as 800 other people. That's not where your special sauce is. But you said something that, like, really nobody ever said this before. That made me think this. But you said we all want to be Mother Teresa. We're like I want to help, I want to help, I want to help. And then you're like you're doing this because you get something out of it and we thrive off of it.

Minessa Konecky: 27:08

I got this email from Bella divine, who I follow and she's a spiritual influencer, and she talked about how pleasure is stigmatized among women, right, and how we aren't supposed to feel pleasure. We're not supposed to, you know. And obviously she was talking about sexual pleasure and sexual pleasure and that kind of pleasure. But when you think about it, we're also like conditioned to hear you eat my sandwich. Oh, you're hungry, here's my sandwich, I'll just have a cracker, you know. And like we are programmed to hand off everything and just take the scraps we can get. And when you said that, the first thing I thought was oh my god, I can't take pleasure out of my work, you know. And because that's the conditioning that we have, like, along with don't brag, don't share about your accomplishments, but it's also not to feel pleasure. So for not allowed to feel pleasure, we're not allowed to brag about our accomplishments and how the fuck are we supposed to talk about what?

Minessa Konecky: 28:01

we do.

Beth Knaus: 28:03

Right, right. Yeah, it's incredible and you know, I know you're into like societal norms and that stuff. I'm really big into generational cycles and it's like. You know, if you go back a generation or two, women had to sell their domestic skills because it was about giving and nurturing and caring for other people, right, and caring for the, for the man who went out or the partner who went out and made the money, because you couldn't have a home and food if they didn't go out and make the money. Women weren't educated at the time and you know that's what they, so they wanted to show up as I can serve, I can raise children, I can make a home, I can cook your meals, I can take care of you when you're sick, right. So everything inside that we have to come up against if we want to enjoy we're doing for work is that.

Beth Knaus: 28:52

You know, I don't like some people. I I do want to help people. I want to help these women that I work with, but I want to feel rewarded because I helped them. I want to feel like I did some kick ass writing for people. I want them to say, oh my god, I can't, I'm getting comments on my website, or people love my blogs or whatever. I want that recognition and I don't. That's we should get that. It's not only about money.

Minessa Konecky: 29:25

You just said, I want recognition, because that's also something that, like you said, we're not. That is absolutely like what a sin you have just committed. Like I feel like we're going to make that into a like a sound bite. There is, like I, because you know what the truth is, is we all, I think.

Minessa Konecky: 29:40

Did you ever watch the movie called step mom with Sharon, susan Sarandon and Julia Roberts? And I'm asking you this question as someone who didn't watch the movie. The reason why I'm bringing it up is because my sister told me that in this story, susan Sarandon talk she's dying of cancer and, spoiler alert, she dies, but it's like a super old movie. So been Julia Roberts has married her ex husband and is going to be raising her kids after she goes, and so the two of them are becoming sort of like friends and you know, working through this issue, and Susan Sarandon says that that she thinks that she's like people to get married so that someone can witness your life right and like you can have a witness, and I thought that was super powerful and I've been really thinking about that.

Minessa Konecky: 30:18

A lot is in terms, in the context of our, our professional world, like the things that we do, in that we want someone to witness what we're doing and acknowledge what we're doing, and and because we do like so I mean, there are, of course, like your, you know, love languages where some people thrive on words of affirmation and some people thrive on this. But the truth is, is everybody feels good when someone tells them that you helped me, right? That releases the dopamine, that releases Saratonin, it makes us feel good and creates community bonds, like that's how we are developed, right? So I think that it's. So. How do you? Okay, so I'm a client of yours, let's say, and I come to you and we're talking and I fill out all this paperwork, right, which, by the way, I love that you do that, because there's no other way to do this like I had a coach once who made me fill out that much paperwork and I said, god, this is going to be such a great experience. And, oh, actually was many aminaguros from the oh.

Beth Knaus: 31:13

I listen to that too. I love her.

Minessa Konecky: 31:16

Oh, she's so good and I, oh my God, I love her so much so I hired her as my coach and she also has like this five page document and I was like, fuck this.

Minessa Konecky: 31:25

And then I was like you know what I'm not going to actually like if I really go, because I was lazy, I didn't want to do whatever it was, but I was like, if I actually want to do this, I was like if I actually want to actually get help like this is how she's literally offering it, but I have to be able to dump, download my whole life into into her brain so she can say, okay, I'm up to speed, but let's say I hadn't come over my resistance, right, and now we're talking and you're telling me I need to brag, and you're telling me to talk about these things, and I'm like and you tell me, did you know that you can do this, this and this because of this? Do you ever have it where somebody really is just like I can't do this, I'm very conditioned, you know, and they really struggle with using the words that you offer them to talk about themselves.

Beth Knaus: 32:11

I haven't really had that. I mean, I've had people where I've had to kind of meet in the middle, yeah, but never anybody.

Minessa Konecky: 32:16

I'm curious about that, like ones where, because that indicates that someone's struggling with coming like letting go of something. So I'm curious to know how that works, for how that works.

Beth Knaus: 32:25

Well. So I think when I'm working with someone let's talk specifically website copy they feel like they're putting themselves out in front of the world, right? And so sometimes they're just like this is concrete and permanent and it has to be perfect. And so sometimes they get limited by that and I have to keep saying you know, I know this is a big project and it's a time suck and it's an investment, but you are going to do it again, you know, especially if it's the first time. It's like this is not going to be your website copy in four years, three years, maybe even two years, and you shouldn't want it to be if your business grows.

Minessa Konecky: 33:07

Yeah, it will change yeah.

Beth Knaus: 33:10

So I think that that's the hard thing. So I will go back and forth and I'll say, well, what if we say this and what if we say that? But I really want them to love it right. So I'll say you know what, you can always come back and change this, you could. Or sometimes, if they say, oh, I'm starting this service, I'll say, okay, let's put the service out. I don't want to do it until I have it totally complete. I'm like, okay, but then you have to go back and add it to your website later. And I'm like, if you put it there, it's like manifesting this thing is going to happen. You can say coming soon and not put a date, but it's there and people know that you're going to do this thing and you can start to talk about it in your social media and all that sort of stuff. And usually I can nudge people a little bit, but I'm okay to compromise. You know, I don't want somebody to be uncomfortable.

Minessa Konecky: 33:53

Right, no, that makes perfect sense. And I also like that you say you're going to do it again, because I think that I'm curious, actually, because you kind of tapped into something. So rather than actually go in with it and say I want to ask you this how much of a role do you think perfectionism plays in that? Because you said it has to be complete, it has to be like do you feel like people tend to hold back because on their websites or copywriting or anything, because they're waiting for it to be perfect?

Beth Knaus: 34:17

Sometimes and you know, I usually say, okay, I'm going to give two rounds of edits. But honestly, if someone comes back to me and says there's just these two or three things, I don't want anybody to ever leave and feel like their project was incomplete. So of course I'm going to spend the time. It's going to take me 15 minutes or 30 minutes worth my time. So you know, at some point you have to say this is never finished. Yeah, right, you can't like. Done is better than perfect. Get your website out there. And sometimes there is that hesitation right Of oh my gosh, as soon as I finish, it's going to be out there and people are going to see me who I really am. How horrible, right, yes, meanwhile that's what they want. But all of a sudden they're like oh my God, the spotlight's going to come on Right. Three, two, one. Everybody's going to see it, right, well, now it's really happening.

Minessa Konecky: 35:07

Right. So now it's kind of, now it's real and people will see that vision that they have, which goes back to our original thing, where it's like you know, what do you do when people don't see your vision, when they don't get it?

Beth Knaus: 35:22

So I just go back in and ask more questions, Actually not just with your clients.

Minessa Konecky: 35:27

I mean, like when you share your vision or my regular vision. Or in your life vision, like I'm forgetting about the clients now, like because they that's a problem we all suffer with, even them, right. So now their vision is out there, your vision is out there, my vision is out there. But, like, how do you deal with the naysayers of your vision?

Beth Knaus: 35:45

I just say well, you know, we'll see. Like, I don't want people like that bother me because you know, I know some. There's a few things. Some people have a totally different vision and they don't know why you don't want their vision. And then there's that. Then you have people who are envious, right? Or maybe it creates insecurity, right? Or they get jealous, or they're resentful that you're in a place that they want to get to, but they're not. They're not there yet. Or maybe they're past you and they wish that they had done XYZ and they didn't.

Beth Knaus: 36:15

That's not my shit, right? That's somebody else. I have my own shit, so, but I, that's not my thing, right? I'm not responsible for somebody's response, which also means that I have to think about am I really going to react to someone's response? It's usually emotional. So, yes, you know, I might have to play with it in my head for a bit, but I don't usually let it. And I know who my dreamer friends are, right? I mean, we want to have those dreamer friends that we can call up and say you know, when I'm famous and I'm touring Europe, I just want you to know I'm, you're going to come on my bus.

Minessa Konecky: 36:51

And when we buy the compound that has four houses because I have that, you know, the compound of four houses on the ocean where my friends all live in a house, and that's a good one I'm going to do that for my speaking also. So I see, I feel like you and I are going to be passing each other on the ships when we're speaking.

Beth Knaus: 37:04

Yes, yes, so I don't know. I just feel like I know. So I grew up as an only child, so I was used to not saying everything out loud, I think, or just talking to myself. It's not like I had siblings where we were constantly talking about what we were going to do and, you know, my dad worked. I wasn't close to my mom and I don't know, it was on my own. So a lot of the times my ideas are in my head and I don't even say them out loud.

Minessa Konecky: 37:31

That is very cool. Well, I mean also like being alone. It almost like you create your own you know group of you get your own stuff in here that like is like this is how I'm moving forward. I love that as an idea, like you've. Actually there's some really great ideas that you brought out here, like specifically related to people who have a vision for their business, for their lives, that are that get the, that have the naysayers in their life. Like I really love how you like this is not my shit, right, and I think that so many of us forget that and that was a really powerful lesson for me to learn that like someone else's life choices is not a referendum on mine, right, it's like it's totally fine for us all to make our different life choices and for us to like cheer each other on, even you know. So what if somebody's making like a mistake? What the hell does it have to do with you?

Beth Knaus: 38:15

Like nothing, exactly, exactly, you know. I feel like when we look at other people's stuff, right Like I live in Norwood mass.

Beth Knaus: 38:25

I don't know if you know where that is, but next to us is like Westwood, and sometimes I drive down these beautiful streets and there are these multimillion dollar homes and they're gorgeous. And then I say to myself, we're fitting. You know, house with 20 rooms. What for me and my husband, like you know who's going to long, we'd take six days, well, and that's it. And then I'm like, oh God, then you got to pay somebody to mow the lawn and the electric bill and, you know, cathedral ceilings are great until it's, you know, 20 degrees out. It's just that I say to myself, this is not who you are. Yeah, they're beautiful and you can admire them, and kudos to the person who worked to get to that point. That's their dream, but it's not my dream and it's okay.

Minessa Konecky: 39:06

Right, I've driven past those same houses in Westwood, by the way, and done the exact same thing, and it's especially fun to do it at Christmas time, you know, like when the snow is out, and it's so classic. New England it's so classic and I just love and I do the same thing where I'm like, oh man, you know God, like as you can see, they're perfect tree and everything and I'm like, oh, so lovely.

Minessa Konecky: 39:27

And then I think to myself, I mean, I would like like I literally live in an 800 square foot space and that's all I really need Like what would I do? I'd have to clean that space. I don't want to hire somebody to clean that space. Taxes I'd have to pay taxes on that.

Beth Knaus: 39:39

Oh God, taxes are high in Westwood. No big deal, but yeah, I mean, I don't know. I guess everybody's vision is their vision, right, it's all relative, it is.

Minessa Konecky: 39:54

And I think it's boring if we all have the same vision, right? Because, like, if I had the copywriting vision that you do, then what would we be talking about right now? Because I would have nothing to learn from you. We'd just be sitting in an embarrassed silence.

Beth Knaus: 40:03

So it's which works for a podcast, of course, so.

Minessa Konecky: 40:09

I love that. So how did you so? Now you would okay. By the way, when I went to your website, god, because I didn't know, you and Nancy did a podcast together when I first met you back then and then and then I saw your podcast together and I, after I started, I was like I can see why these two got together, Like I can just you guys, and then, of course, seeing you on the podcast. You guys have great synergy and I am curious, how did that come to pass so?

Beth Knaus: 40:35

I had met Nancy in some networking group and we ended up in a couple different groups together, so we knew each other. And then she kept talking about I want to write this book, I want to write this book, I want to write this book. And one day she was like do you edit books? And I was like I don't advertise it because I'm pretty selective about it, mainly because I want to buy into the topic. You don't want somebody to edit your book. And they're like oh my god, this is 300 pages of blah, blah, blah. Right, it's the same thing. But I mean, you know, nancy, what wouldn't be fun about editing that book?

Minessa Konecky: 41:10

I know, and the book is so good, by the way, everyone it's going to be in the show notes buy it, that's right.

Beth Knaus: 41:15

So we got together and we edited the book. We had a lot of fun, we became friends, we go out to dinner every once in a while, and then, I don't know, a month or two passed after the book stuff settled down and she was like I think we should do a podcast that's based on that stuff in the book. And I was like, all right, let's try it. What's the worst thing could happen? Right? Yes, what's the worst thing could happen? It doesn't go well, it's not going to affect my copywriting, right? I mean and that's another thing with having a vision right, like what if it doesn't go well? Okay, so we'll pivot or we'll detour, or we'll find some other journey. It's a but you have to. You're not going to try, you're just going to say, oh, this might not work, this might not go as I exactly see it. So why wouldn't I do it? But yeah, I just I've had a thought twice and I lost it both times.

Minessa Konecky: 42:09

I can pause in silence if you want it like that.

Beth Knaus: 42:11

Does it help you to?

Minessa Konecky: 42:12

talk about something to find the thought, or does silence, finding it, help you to? Yeah, I'm better off to talk about it, okay, I know what it is.

Beth Knaus: 42:18

I know what it is. See what is it.

Minessa Konecky: 42:20

I knew that would do it. What is it?

Beth Knaus: 42:23

I, nancy, and I talked about this in an episode about the difference between a dream and a goal.

Minessa Konecky: 42:28

Yeah.

Beth Knaus: 42:28

Right. It's one thing if we say, oh, someday I'm going to be the queen of blah blah blah and I'm going to have a palace and whatever it is that you want right, and I own a Caribbean island and whatever. It's another to have a goal and say there's a thing and I want it, yeah, I really want it. I want it enough that I'm going to do what it takes to get it. So you know, when you're saying, oh, I wish I had this right we hear people say this all the time I wish, blah, blah, blah, I wish. Do you want it? Or do you just know?

Beth Knaus: 43:01

It's a dream and it's okay to have dreams right and fantasies and whatever, but there is a difference between a dream and a goal and I think when you're creating a vision, that's part of it right, because it's kind of the middle ground of I'm working towards making this a goal. It started as a dream. Maybe it starts as a dream, but you have to decide at some point. Is this a goal? Is this something I'm really going to try to get?

Minessa Konecky: 43:27

I. So that is so important because I think that, you know, for many years I dreamt about living right on the water, you know, and I, you know, I literally would lay down at night and just dream about the view and just be like this is going to be my view, this is going to be my life. And I dreamed about it. But like I didn't do anything to get myself further to that dream, like I wasn't, we weren't house hunting, I wasn't saving to buy a house, like none of that was happening. I had a lot of goals, you know, in between that that had nothing to do with this. They were just goals about growing, goals about making money, saving money the whole time. Right, Two and a half years ago, on a vacation, my wife and I were talking and we had now been homebound for you know we'd been, you know COVID, and so she didn't have to commute, I wasn't commuting. We're like, why don't we move to the water? And so we didn't think we'd get a house on the ocean. But we were like, all right, we'll get something in Plymouth so we can sort of start to nice but, and so our goal at that point was to get the house in Plymouth, Anywhere, just as long as it was. Well, what ended up happening, though, was we found this fixer upper that is literally falling into pieces, like the roof was broken and the the there's no heat. The heat went out during a snowstorm. There was no insulation, like we rebuilt the house while we're in it, but we found a house, literally I'm looking at the ocean right now, like on a cliff, 100 feet up, like it's literally just right there. So, and but when I set it as a goal, we were ultimately able to achieve and this is the world we're going for this just kind of happened along the way while we were doing it, but we had set the goal and we had done the steps, and so the question that's bringing it back to our earlier conversation, where, like, well, what if it doesn't work? Well, what if that detour takes you to something better? Because the house that we were looking for, that because we thought we could afford, was the house that would be a little bit farther out, that we could walk to the beach or drive to the beach, and then so this wasn't even on our radar the detour we took was a falling apart house, but it's the house we wanted, right? So, like I think we always anticipate the worst case scenario.

Minessa Konecky: 45:32

So, like you said, it makes it hard for us to say like, well, what if it fails? So we'll just fail before we even start, because we won't even start right. But to your point, like, and then sometimes we can keep something as a dream for 10 years and be like, well, I've wanted this for 10 years and I still haven't gotten it. And it's well, that was your dream for 10 years. But have you set it as a goal, which I think I would not have ever had? This, like I'm actually like recalibrating my brain as we're talking, because I can see how for the 10 years before it was just a dream, but then it became a goal and it's like what steps do I need to take to get me there? And then that pushed me there. So, like I think we can do feel like people give themselves shit for not achieving goals that were actually set up as dreams in their head. You know, like they haven't actually set it as a goal, but they think it is because it's a dream.

Beth Knaus: 46:22

That's a really cool thought. Yeah, sure, I think that's possible right.

Minessa Konecky: 46:28

That is. It really puts a new light on disappointment because, like now, I feel like in the future I really need to be mindful about what I'm actually doing, because I think how often do we say, oh, I can't wait, I wish I had this right. And it's like, oh, this didn't happen. And it's like, well, did you do anything?

Beth Knaus: 46:43

Right, right, and I, you're right, yeah, because maybe it is a dream, or maybe people stop too soon, right? Or they say, well, I didn't achieve the goal in the time that I wanted or with the money I had to invest, maybe it just takes a little more money. Or hiring one other person, or being patient for another two or three months, do you know what I mean?

Minessa Konecky: 47:09

Like, instead of just saying, well, I said this day and I didn't get it, so I'm just going to give up, it sounds funny when you say it that way actually, but I've been there and I'm laughing at myself because I know I've done that. But it's like, when you say it like that, it's kind of like, well, I mean, why would you do that? That seems silly. Like I've come this far. I've run this marathon all the way to 25 miles. I think I'm done now.

Minessa Konecky: 47:33

I think I'll just sit here because I haven't crossed it in my time. It's like, dude, just finish the marathon. You've literally got less than a mile, Like why don't you just finish, right?

Beth Knaus: 47:40

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Minessa Konecky: 47:42

So, yeah, you're never going to catch me in a marathon, by the way, never, ever, ever. Me either. I do not run, I walk slowly. So I ran the mile when I was in high school and it took me 30 minutes. And Mr Gan was like Manessa, please, I need you to do it in less than 20 minutes or I can't pass you. Can you do it one more time? And I was like Mr Gan, I can't do this, he goes, please, just 19 minutes. I just did. I'm like all right, I'm like 19 and a half, just do it. I had a dude actually His name was Camille and he is Camille. He had already finished it. He did it in like four minutes, super fast, and he actually walked behind me the whole time giving me a back massage, and that's how.

Minessa Konecky: 48:18

I ran my second mile that day. Oh shit, no, I lost. Oh okay, I wanted to come back to you talking about you meeting Nancy and you and me talking, because you're in Norwood, I'm in the South Shore, Like we're very local. I'm curious to know how I'm really nesting in my local community. So I'm curious to know how do you feel, how has being a part of a local community and developing your local community helped you as a person professionally? I'd love to hear a little about that.

Beth Knaus: 48:53

That's really interesting because I feel like in the past few years, like you've been able to expand your reach right to so many places that it's not just like, oh my gosh, I really need to focus on this 10 mile by 10 mile square people. But I'm an in-person networker and I like to meet people in person because for me, first of all, like if we have a strategy call for your website copy I am looking at what you're wearing, what does your background look like? What is your energy, your tone of voice, Are you humorous, Are you intense? Do you move your hands? Do you, you know, make facial expressions? Like so much of meeting people in person is. I think you can tell if you're going to drive with somebody and yeah, you know we all got used to Zoom and stuff, but I think it's a great way to get people to open up. But I actually, in Walpole, belong to a community. I think you were there once at Shebreaths.

Minessa Konecky: 49:53

Oh, you were there. Absolutely, that's in the. I don't even know where the building, where that is, because there's a co-working station right next door to it, yep.

Beth Knaus: 50:01

And that's a wonderful community and I've been there since day one with Jen and watched it evolve and you know different people come through and different members and just being able to help people and you know I talked to a lot of people there like Pro Bono that are. You know they're in transition or they're in, you know, healing fields where they have a really hard time with the marketing thing and put a lot of time in there to help and support people and I think it's great if there's always payback with that right. There's always, like you know, two years later you get a referral from this person, from this place. You know somebody you never even worked with or somebody who pulled your name out of a hat.

Beth Knaus: 50:42

You may not even remember their name, because they know that you're a good person, a kind person, a generous person, a genuine person, right?

Minessa Konecky: 50:52

I really like what you said about it may pay off two years. Online always pays off. I think that we're a very transactional society where we typically say, okay, beth, I'm not going to spend time with you and help you with your resume, or you've helped me with you know Pro Bono. And now what are you going to do for me? You're going to give me a customer or you're going to give me this right. And that's not how I see the world, right, because I think that, like the world is bigger than that. So like I help you and Six Months Down the Line, someone else comes and helps me and then, six Months Down the Line, someone else helps them. Like it's a universal balance, not like a and it doesn't happen.

Minessa Konecky: 51:24

Like a lot of people, I think, join communities and they expect there to be like I'm going to find clients here and they're going to be able to get more clients. That's going to happen fast. And it's like, really you've got it. Like you said, you've been in SheBreats since the beginning and I've heard about SheBreats since I moved. Like I've always heard about it and, in fact, the only reason I'm not a member of SheBreats is because it's so far away. I really wanted to join but it was just so far I couldn't. And Jen and I talked a couple of times and she was like, well, you know we have virtual blah, blah blah, but I really wanted to do in person because, like, that's sort of what I'm like. So I'm sad to not be a part of it, but so glad that you are.

Minessa Konecky: 51:58

And, guys, if you want to hang out with Beth, then you have to go join SheBreats, which is in Westwood. No, it's Walpole and there's a nice co-working station next door if anybody's looking for a co-working space. Beth, it has been such a joy talking to you. You are so much fun. Tell me, how can you know? I have lots of listeners and almost all of them are business owners looking for copywriting help and help with what you offer. How do they find you? How do they get your services?

Beth Knaus: 52:26

So I have a website and it's that'sasphadecom, and I'm hoping that in maybe two, three weeks tops, it'll be a brand new website. Oh yeah, I'm waiting on the content. Writer, please. I've been very humbled and they can find me. I'm on Instagram and on Facebook as that's a spade, and on LinkedIn under Beth Knauss and email Beth Knauss at that'sasphadecom.

Minessa Konecky: 52:57

Fabulous, fabulous. Thank you so much for your time today, Beth. This was awesome. Thanks for having me.